Almost two and a half years now for the OWA's and they've yet to produce anything. At what point does it become reasonable to assume that there's no genuine opportunity there?
How sketchy is this: Dig Me No Grave was found on Script Revolution but S32 is claiming it as one of their success stories because the writer is an S32 member. At what point do these claims become outright fraud?
There's every chance Stage 32 is simply going off face value. If Gary emailed them saying his script got picked up and he feels S32 coverage played a key part in him developing it, then they may not know any better and be operating in good faith. Geoff is a good guy. That's something that happened way before he joined the platform.
I get it sometimes. I get someone messaging me about a success story, and I have to do this really uncomfortable thing where I ask if it was because of something that happened here. Sometimes it isn't, and I feel pretty mean saying I can't give that writer a shoutout because I don't want it to look like SR is taking credit for something it hasn't done.
For the record, Stage 32 has been, by far, the biggest supporter of Script Revolution and considers it a sister platform. Only the other month, they had a slide in a presentation by Karen K Ross about crafting endings that gave a shoutout to me, my book, and SR. Rich Botto was also the first person who spoke about SR publicly, back when it launched, during a Q&A session about S32. He didn't need to do that. I consider all that team friends and visiting the offices when I shot my first film in LA was a huge moment for me. as I consider the S32 screenwriting lounge critical in keeping me going and finding direction as a writer in the early days.
There's stuff that does get at me though, both at a personal and platform level, and it's sadly how the industry can be:
I once reached out to another platform about working together. The owner was keen. Knowing I worked with a director with quite a few films under this belt, they asked me to connect them, which I did. They then interviewed the director and outright lied about how they had gotten in touch, excluding me from the conversation entirely.
During an online webcast, someone who worked on the set of a film I wrote and produced spoke about how they got the job. Rather than say I was the writer and a producer (a participating producer on top of that), they demeaned me as just a friend of the platform they worked for who was also friends with the director.
I had a co-producer on a production put out a social media post once listing everyone involved, but excluding me as writer and a producer.
There's someone in my friendship circle who found a director to work with through Script Revolution. In all their fundraising materials, various platforms are credited in helping them get the production off the ground, except SR, which actually sparked it.
There was an S32 Writer's Room event where they covered a film I wrote. They invited the director to discuss the script development, then me at the last minute, but the event being in a different time zone made it impossible for me to attend on short notice. Worse still, the script they had all the members see wasn't my production draft; it was a butchered version made for distributors to translate, complete with spelling mistakes in the opening paragraph.
In the nearly ten years Script Revolution has been running, the only coverage it's ever gotten in the press was an aside note in an article about Coverfly, and that was only thanks to someone within Coverfly. SR still isn't listed in the likes of Reddit r/screenwriting FAQs, despite being free at its core and run by a fellow writer. I just don't get that. I sometimes fight the feeling that it's all one big conspiracy.
A lot of it hurts, but most of it is more innocent than it looks. Some of it is politics, and it's politics because people are wary of upsetting the apple cart. A lot of it is ignorance. In some rare cases, it's outright taking the piss.
It's also worth noting that many platforms go through similar things. InkTip is regularly referenced as being effective for writers sharing what's moved the needle for them, but you never hear about it these days. SimplyScripts remains off the radar despite the platform owner, Don Boose, working daily, at his own expense and on top of his day job, to help writers. Stage 32 gets an absolute bashing within some communities, slandered as an outright scam when it objectively isn't. ScriptHop found themselves silenced within some communities when they launched The Gauntlet, with even mentioning the platform being banned on some, and the owners' names dragged through the mud. Again, if you go into the S32 forums, which are actively moderated, there is no suppression of conversations about any other platform, even though they are in direct competition.
The industry suffers from bubbles of politics, elitism, fads, and paranoia. I think a lot of us who have been in the game for some time know where that mainly lies. However, one thing I can say with certainty is that Stage 32 is not in the business of stealing success stories from Script Revolution. They have proven, through their actions, that they are friends and allies.
CJ - Thank you. I appreciate your insight. I hadn't considered this perspective and I'm happy to hear that S32 is supportive of you, even if they aren't perfect. This gives me better perspective.
I think this, like many other things, is a matter of perspective. Maybe it's "new girl" vibe of me to say so, but what constitutes a success story?
And what kinds of success can an education platform really claim without edging into the very nepotism that they are fighting against?
I've seen a lot of success in just a few months. By my metric. I'm wholly unknown. My online presence is zero. Nobody knows anything about me beyond what I've told them because there's nothing to know.
In late November, early December, I got a casual read offer. I honestly think it was done just to see if the pages match the shit I talk. Dead ass. It was (to my thinking) just to test my mettle, but I didn't realize that till after
The asker is a producer and, me being me, I didn't realize it. So, I sent the script thinking this was just another peer looking for a swap partner.
I got told it was brilliant and asked what I finally realized to be the pre-lim legal guff of a filmmaker with interest.
THEN, I actually checked the profile. (I'm a ditz, okay? Sue me.)
What came after was real interest, real development conversations. A real statement that this person was trying to figure out a way to make location work so that they could produce MY film. It wasn't workable, but they wanted it.
I didn't pay Stage 32 or anyone else for any services. But it happened there. Quietly. Behind the scenes. And nobody knows about it except me and that person. And now, y'all.
I found that venture to be wildly successful, despite it not working out to make my movie. I got real indie interest on the first feature film I ever wrote, by the first person in the industry to ever see it, and was offered the rare "I read it in one go" to boot.
That's fairytale energy.
I booty danced SO hard. Wildly happy about the interaction, despite it being a mismatch.
I learned. And that's a win.
And it never would've happened if I hadn't been on Stage 32. We all know I'm a mod there - and honestly, I'm not sure why they made me one. Maybe to contain the wild card? But I'm not here speaking for them and I want that known.
I'm speaking for me. It's easy to mistake quiet success for a lack thereof. That doesn't make it truly lacking. Just quiet. And I think a lot of things might happen that way.
Like everything, it is what you make of it. I choose the metric by which my success is measured. But I can absolutely understand where frustration comes into play when one asks "Where is the tangible? Where are the results?" when it concerns a large scale platform. It's a valid question. Just might not have an easy answer.
Ella reaffirms something I keep trying to get across, but counters the narrative of most screenwriting communities. Success rarely looks like connect > option > sale > production, it's far, far more convoluted. It's more like connect > talk > get passed on > talk > meet > connect > talk > get read > talk > discuss potential project > talk > meet > talk > get update on funding > wait five years > get update on attachment > talk > give up > get update on funding > write synopsis > talk business > give up again > get green light > get assignment > production - and that's just one thread.
This is partly what people mean when they say it's the business of being seduced and abandoned over and over again.
I've got a feature script now that's been in play for five years. Everyone loves it. It's attached two Oscar nominees. It's low budget. It nearly went into production once. It's still going in circles. Another that's six years old now got the attention of one of the industry's biggest producers from the 80s/90s. He loved it. Then we went down the rabbit hole of some shitty horror that got canned. Painful.
It's also crazy hard to get read by, or even on the radar of, a decision maker. When people talk about getting read, they are often talking about low-level readers, producers/directors with no credits, and new reps. Not to be sniffed at, but those aren't people who typically get anything made.
The Stage 32 OWAs even so much as putting names in front of real decision makers has value. More value than most competitions.
That's exactly how I look at it. The value is there.
And nothing anywhere can guarantee success, not SR, not InkTip, not S32. The best you can do is get access and make your success as you can and if you can. It's still gonna be a blue eyed miracle.
Stage 32 offers a little access. And that's not without merit.
All of that being said, I have to believe the filmmakers for my work are out there and I'll find them. Without having to embrace some multi hyphenate journey I don't want. There's a director out there who will see the vision. A producer who believes in the stories. Actors and crew who want to jump off the cliffs I'm gonna fling them off of. In my mind it's a simple (haha) geography problem... I don't know theirs.
Anything that genuinely narrows down the spots on the map is a yes from me. A tool I can use. Because CJ is right. The path is damn convoluted enough.
As ever, dating is the only analogy I like to use when it comes to art and business.
What everyone is looking for is alignment; your weird output matches someone else's weird desire.
Exposure increases those odds. Endorsement from trusted sources increases those odds. Remaining authentic ensures the alignment is genuine when it finally happens.
Competitions pick what the judges believe are the best suitors and promote them to their contacts.
S32 OWAs listen to what their contacts want and try to matchmake with submitted scripts.
Script Revolution provides the entire dating pool and expects people to refine it down by needs.
Pitch sessions are like speed dating.
Cold queries are like approaching someone in the bar.
Having a manager is like having a dating coach.
These are all different ways to help with alignment. Some curated, some not. All at the mercy of participants who aren't really in a position to commit and/or don't really know what they want.
The bottom line is that it's messy. When you can't find alignment, it's like everything is against you. When you find it, it feels like destiny.
I think I've struck out about 15 times in a row with one of my scripts in S32's OWA process. You have to submit the entire script and I doubt all those scripts are read each time. It's more likely coverage is done once and used as a basis for assessment evermore. Pure speculation on my part. But I do give up on OWAs now. Last month I had the satisfaction of getting an OWA rejection email on the same day that S32 also let me know by email that a pitch of the same script had earned a read request from the director of development for a production company that had made some of the most successful action films of the last decade. Then it happened again the following week with another DoD and with another production company of equal stature. So goodbye "Writer's Room," I'll spend my money on the pitches. But I do appreciate S32 no matter what happens. Because of them there's at least a lightning in a bottle's chance my script will draw interest from one of these top companies. Two bottles on my playing field, and all I had to do was shell out 70 bucks for the two pitches. I like CJ's dating analogy. I've got one script that's a total slut, mixing it up with an international array of indy producers and directors since 2017, more than ten of them, with two option offers I'd declined as not being fair enough. That script is dating once again, thanks to SR.
As ever, it's best to lean into what gets the best results from your traits and talents. Again, much like dating, being in the right environment is critical. Some writers create material well aligned with curation, others are amazing in a room.
TBH, I don't think that lost feeling ever goes. I know people who've been in this all their lives, and the passing of each project feels like being thrown back into the wilderness.
There was a really realistic career timeline posted on Reddit a month or so back. It basically outlined that, for most, this tends to be an intense hobby for the first decade or so, and only then do you get the bottom-of-the-barrel jobs. Then it's another ten years working semi-professionally until it becomes a viable career.
The greatest difficulty is networking outside of any sort of filmmaking hub. There's really no substitute for being there in front of people. However, that also means being exposed to time waster after time waster and dead end after dead end.
The OWA submission pages have been updated with some more transparency behind the process.
Thank you for your submission!
Here's what happens next:
Step 1: Internal Review (2-3 weeks) Every script submitted is read twice by our internal team to ensure quality and alignment with the executive's mandate.
Step 2: Curator Selection Our team selects scripts that best match the executive's specific criteria and shares them for consideration.
Step 3: Executive Review The executive reviews the curated submissions and decides which scripts they'd like to read in full.
Step 4: Introduction (If There's Interest) If the executive wants to engage with your material, we'll facilitate an introduction via email. From there, the executive may request a meeting, provide feedback, or explore potential collaboration.
What to Expect:
Timeline: The full process typically takes 4-6 weeks from submission to executive decision.
Next Steps: If selected, you'll receive an email introduction connecting you directly with the executive.
No Response: We strive to provide an update to everyone who entered but we are also dependent on the executives' response time so please be patient as we review your material and advocate on your behalf.
I'm all for transparency, but I actually think the S32 process for OWAs that you posted makes it worse. We're always whining about gatekeepers keeping our scripts from getting to the producers and what have we here.... gatekeepers keeping our scripts from getting to producers. Only this time, instead of a production company reader, it's the S32 cabal reading and re-reading to "protect" the producers from getting scripts they deem to be not on point.
If you want gatekeepers, just submit directly to production companies and take your chances with their gatekeepers! How is their shit any different?
You're basically arguing against the idea of curation, which I totally get. I'm not a fan of curation myself, and that's why Script Revolution is built primarily as a discovery platform.
The problem everyone is facing is oversupply, so many outsource the filtering. The thing is, it's like asking someone to go out and bring you back some food with a very vague idea of what you want. The chances of them coming back with something acceptable are fifty-fifty, while the chances of them surprising you with exactly what you desire in the moment are one in a million.
You take away the curation element, and the OWAs become moot.
The other major unspoken issue with reader alignment is being given the benefit of the doubt. When you are a complete unknown without any sort of reputable endorsement, you're on the back foot with most readers, who will take every minor issue they have as a sign you don't have what it takes. The less experienced and lower-tier the reader, the more petty this issue gets. I could submit a script anonymously to an unknown competition tomorrow and get shot down by page three for bold slug-lines, while I could submit it to some well-established industry members who know me, who'll go in positive from page one.
Just to add a little more context, when I talk about oversupply, that's beyond the scope of just too many applicable, producible scripts. Having seen things from the other side, it's shocking what people will submit. I'm talking scripts that don't even come close to what's been asked for and/or written in a way that doesn't even look vaguely like a screenplay.
A lot of curation is really just triage. You've got readers simply opening the pdfs to see if they are actually just five pages of novel-formatted prose in Times New Roman. I wish I was joking.
This is why making the first round in a competition is basically meaningless. That first sweep is pretty much eliminating complete garbage.
This is partly why Script Revolution initially demanded members complete a twenty-five-word bio to sign up. If a self-proclaimed writer can't even do that then they are highly unlikely to be writing good material.
Some curation platforms use financial commitment as a way to filter, but it doesn't work. Some of the worst offenders have plenty of money to waste, and in some cases, are using it as a crutch in the first place.
A lot of writers also want curation to exist, but only if the cut-off is below them. They think the problem is "too much crap" muddying the waters, but don't stop to question if they are part of that problem.
The other thing is just how expensive quality curation really is. The Gauntlet shows the reality of what it takes to do it rigorously.
I hear you CJ - there is A LOT of junk out there, but I don't have a problem with curation; I understand its purpose and feel it's the only way to separate the wheat from the chaff. Someone has to filter out the crap! But my issue is why not submit the LOGLINES to the producer themselves and have them select the ones they want to read. Then the S32 reader can read from what the producers actually want.
I mostly have a problem with curation. I don't think most people doing it are really in a position to do it. Plus, we know the statistics when it comes to success are dire. You make a good point about simply providing the loglines, perhaps after a sweep through to make sure the scripts are presentable.
I agree with you Michael (Fine)! I don't think it's promising to have the S32 people filtering the loglines and/or scripts. I actually just canceled my Writers Room membership and gave them that reason why - told them I'd stick to InkTip where it goes directly to the producer/seeker. And, CJ, exactly right re the people doing the filtering.
Cannon - I cancelled my Writers Room membership almost two years ago and in that time I've watched one writer after another achieve success through script options, paid writing gigs, rep deals, and even a few production deals ... Oh, wait ... maybe not.
Indeed, we're getting on for nearly two years discussing this now. No positive OWA news that I know of. At an average of five OWAs a month, that's getting on for well over a hundred in that time with no news of even meetings, never mind signings, assignments, options, or sales. I don't know if anybody has even gotten any feedback, other than a pass. The analysis of scripts chosen has shown a few WGA writers in the mix too, so we know the scripts are up to standard.
Geez. Those statistics are alarming. I'm glad I cancelled my Writer's Room subscription. The pitch sessions were more worthwhile for the cost, but even those can be a big gamble, depending on who you get.
Today is two years since I started this thread to express my concern about the lack of any results from the OWA's. A lot could've changed in two years. There could've been a flurry of script options, writing assignments, rep deals, and maybe even a script produced. None of that has happened. Almost four and a half years of operation for the OWA's and still not a single paid option. At what point is it reasonable for writers to conclude that there is no opportunity in the OWA's?
It is starting to feel like a boondoggle to me. I'll continue to submit, but at this point, it feels random and inconsequential. Not getting selected for the pulpy/Tarantino-esc OWA still stings for me, as that's my wheelhouse. Not so much as someone reporting any form of communication back, other than a pass. No meetings. No options. No associated assignments. Almost entirely anonymous industry members with TBC payment terms.
Laurie Ashbourne raised concerns a couple of years back, and I argued against them. I'm now thinking she was right.
I still think the whole thing is in good faith and a worthwhile benefit of the Writer's Room. I just question the industry demand.
I am on Stage 32 and there is a boat load of spam on there. So many fake accounts. Diablo Cody supposedly sent me a Network Request on there. But to no prevail it was a fake account. The account said Diablo M. Cody, which is a big red flag, and no accolades or awards, just a bare profile with a small description papragraph of her bio. What I have researched Stage 32 is meant for "practicing" pitches and OWA's. It is very seldom that someone gets a deal or rep from Stage 32. That is what I have gathered anyways.
The fake industry-member issue has been a problem for years, and it seems to have become increasingly automated. There's a thread in the screenwriting lounge right now with lots of people saying they've been affected. This is an old scam where someone poses as a known industry member connects with you, reaches out about your work, and eventually tells you they can do something with your script for an upfront fee to cover their costs. It's been run across all sorts of platforms in the past, even just via email, and is nearly impossible to stop. As I understand it, S32 are actively working with the FBI on a bunch of cases that were run through the platform.
The AI-driven account issue is getting a little scary. I'm getting connection requests from 'story editors' on a daily basis. These accounts are interacting with the site like a normal user. They even post and comment in the forums. There was a thread I saw the other day started by an AI agent and had, like, twenty members engaging with it. It was the weirdest thing. They are generally easy to spot because they almost always point to a services page on Fiverr, have uncanny-vanny profile pictures, and often names that don't match the gender/race of said bio pic. The thing is, not only are the scamming people, they are also posting a lot of questionable advice. I saw one where a guy was told that getting a read request from Zero Gravity was a tremendous achievement - it's a running joke that you could send Zero Gravity an email virus and still get a release document back.
The thing is, I'm not sure what they can realistically do. The whole point is that the platform is open.
How sketchy is this: Dig Me No Grave was found on Script Revolution but S32 is claiming it as one of their success stories because the writer is an S32 member. At what point do these claims become outright fraud?
CJ & Richard - You should post that truth on the blog entry on S32!
https://www.stage32.com/blog/land-your-first-win-what-you-can-learn-from...
If you don't call bullshit no one will.
There's every chance Stage 32 is simply going off face value. If Gary emailed them saying his script got picked up and he feels S32 coverage played a key part in him developing it, then they may not know any better and be operating in good faith. Geoff is a good guy. That's something that happened way before he joined the platform.
I get it sometimes. I get someone messaging me about a success story, and I have to do this really uncomfortable thing where I ask if it was because of something that happened here. Sometimes it isn't, and I feel pretty mean saying I can't give that writer a shoutout because I don't want it to look like SR is taking credit for something it hasn't done.
For the record, Stage 32 has been, by far, the biggest supporter of Script Revolution and considers it a sister platform. Only the other month, they had a slide in a presentation by Karen K Ross about crafting endings that gave a shoutout to me, my book, and SR. Rich Botto was also the first person who spoke about SR publicly, back when it launched, during a Q&A session about S32. He didn't need to do that. I consider all that team friends and visiting the offices when I shot my first film in LA was a huge moment for me. as I consider the S32 screenwriting lounge critical in keeping me going and finding direction as a writer in the early days.
There's stuff that does get at me though, both at a personal and platform level, and it's sadly how the industry can be:
I once reached out to another platform about working together. The owner was keen. Knowing I worked with a director with quite a few films under this belt, they asked me to connect them, which I did. They then interviewed the director and outright lied about how they had gotten in touch, excluding me from the conversation entirely.
During an online webcast, someone who worked on the set of a film I wrote and produced spoke about how they got the job. Rather than say I was the writer and a producer (a participating producer on top of that), they demeaned me as just a friend of the platform they worked for who was also friends with the director.
I had a co-producer on a production put out a social media post once listing everyone involved, but excluding me as writer and a producer.
There's someone in my friendship circle who found a director to work with through Script Revolution. In all their fundraising materials, various platforms are credited in helping them get the production off the ground, except SR, which actually sparked it.
There was an S32 Writer's Room event where they covered a film I wrote. They invited the director to discuss the script development, then me at the last minute, but the event being in a different time zone made it impossible for me to attend on short notice. Worse still, the script they had all the members see wasn't my production draft; it was a butchered version made for distributors to translate, complete with spelling mistakes in the opening paragraph.
In the nearly ten years Script Revolution has been running, the only coverage it's ever gotten in the press was an aside note in an article about Coverfly, and that was only thanks to someone within Coverfly. SR still isn't listed in the likes of Reddit r/screenwriting FAQs, despite being free at its core and run by a fellow writer. I just don't get that. I sometimes fight the feeling that it's all one big conspiracy.
A lot of it hurts, but most of it is more innocent than it looks. Some of it is politics, and it's politics because people are wary of upsetting the apple cart. A lot of it is ignorance. In some rare cases, it's outright taking the piss.
It's also worth noting that many platforms go through similar things. InkTip is regularly referenced as being effective for writers sharing what's moved the needle for them, but you never hear about it these days. SimplyScripts remains off the radar despite the platform owner, Don Boose, working daily, at his own expense and on top of his day job, to help writers. Stage 32 gets an absolute bashing within some communities, slandered as an outright scam when it objectively isn't. ScriptHop found themselves silenced within some communities when they launched The Gauntlet, with even mentioning the platform being banned on some, and the owners' names dragged through the mud. Again, if you go into the S32 forums, which are actively moderated, there is no suppression of conversations about any other platform, even though they are in direct competition.
The industry suffers from bubbles of politics, elitism, fads, and paranoia. I think a lot of us who have been in the game for some time know where that mainly lies. However, one thing I can say with certainty is that Stage 32 is not in the business of stealing success stories from Script Revolution. They have proven, through their actions, that they are friends and allies.
CJ - Thank you. I appreciate your insight. I hadn't considered this perspective and I'm happy to hear that S32 is supportive of you, even if they aren't perfect. This gives me better perspective.
I think this, like many other things, is a matter of perspective. Maybe it's "new girl" vibe of me to say so, but what constitutes a success story?
And what kinds of success can an education platform really claim without edging into the very nepotism that they are fighting against?
I've seen a lot of success in just a few months. By my metric. I'm wholly unknown. My online presence is zero. Nobody knows anything about me beyond what I've told them because there's nothing to know.
In late November, early December, I got a casual read offer. I honestly think it was done just to see if the pages match the shit I talk. Dead ass. It was (to my thinking) just to test my mettle, but I didn't realize that till after
The asker is a producer and, me being me, I didn't realize it. So, I sent the script thinking this was just another peer looking for a swap partner.
I got told it was brilliant and asked what I finally realized to be the pre-lim legal guff of a filmmaker with interest.
THEN, I actually checked the profile. (I'm a ditz, okay? Sue me.)
What came after was real interest, real development conversations. A real statement that this person was trying to figure out a way to make location work so that they could produce MY film. It wasn't workable, but they wanted it.
I didn't pay Stage 32 or anyone else for any services. But it happened there. Quietly. Behind the scenes. And nobody knows about it except me and that person. And now, y'all.
I found that venture to be wildly successful, despite it not working out to make my movie. I got real indie interest on the first feature film I ever wrote, by the first person in the industry to ever see it, and was offered the rare "I read it in one go" to boot.
That's fairytale energy.
I booty danced SO hard. Wildly happy about the interaction, despite it being a mismatch.
I learned. And that's a win.
And it never would've happened if I hadn't been on Stage 32. We all know I'm a mod there - and honestly, I'm not sure why they made me one. Maybe to contain the wild card? But I'm not here speaking for them and I want that known.
I'm speaking for me. It's easy to mistake quiet success for a lack thereof. That doesn't make it truly lacking. Just quiet. And I think a lot of things might happen that way.
Like everything, it is what you make of it. I choose the metric by which my success is measured. But I can absolutely understand where frustration comes into play when one asks "Where is the tangible? Where are the results?" when it concerns a large scale platform. It's a valid question. Just might not have an easy answer.
Too true, Elle!
Ella reaffirms something I keep trying to get across, but counters the narrative of most screenwriting communities. Success rarely looks like connect > option > sale > production, it's far, far more convoluted. It's more like connect > talk > get passed on > talk > meet > connect > talk > get read > talk > discuss potential project > talk > meet > talk > get update on funding > wait five years > get update on attachment > talk > give up > get update on funding > write synopsis > talk business > give up again > get green light > get assignment > production - and that's just one thread.
This is partly what people mean when they say it's the business of being seduced and abandoned over and over again.
I've got a feature script now that's been in play for five years. Everyone loves it. It's attached two Oscar nominees. It's low budget. It nearly went into production once. It's still going in circles. Another that's six years old now got the attention of one of the industry's biggest producers from the 80s/90s. He loved it. Then we went down the rabbit hole of some shitty horror that got canned. Painful.
It's also crazy hard to get read by, or even on the radar of, a decision maker. When people talk about getting read, they are often talking about low-level readers, producers/directors with no credits, and new reps. Not to be sniffed at, but those aren't people who typically get anything made.
The Stage 32 OWAs even so much as putting names in front of real decision makers has value. More value than most competitions.
That's exactly how I look at it. The value is there.
And nothing anywhere can guarantee success, not SR, not InkTip, not S32. The best you can do is get access and make your success as you can and if you can. It's still gonna be a blue eyed miracle.
Stage 32 offers a little access. And that's not without merit.
All of that being said, I have to believe the filmmakers for my work are out there and I'll find them. Without having to embrace some multi hyphenate journey I don't want. There's a director out there who will see the vision. A producer who believes in the stories. Actors and crew who want to jump off the cliffs I'm gonna fling them off of. In my mind it's a simple (haha) geography problem... I don't know theirs.
Anything that genuinely narrows down the spots on the map is a yes from me. A tool I can use. Because CJ is right. The path is damn convoluted enough.
As ever, dating is the only analogy I like to use when it comes to art and business.
What everyone is looking for is alignment; your weird output matches someone else's weird desire.
Exposure increases those odds. Endorsement from trusted sources increases those odds. Remaining authentic ensures the alignment is genuine when it finally happens.
Competitions pick what the judges believe are the best suitors and promote them to their contacts.
S32 OWAs listen to what their contacts want and try to matchmake with submitted scripts.
Script Revolution provides the entire dating pool and expects people to refine it down by needs.
Pitch sessions are like speed dating.
Cold queries are like approaching someone in the bar.
Having a manager is like having a dating coach.
These are all different ways to help with alignment. Some curated, some not. All at the mercy of participants who aren't really in a position to commit and/or don't really know what they want.
The bottom line is that it's messy. When you can't find alignment, it's like everything is against you. When you find it, it feels like destiny.
I like that word. Alignment feels like the right word.
P117 of my book talks about alignment in the chapter on career building.
I think I've struck out about 15 times in a row with one of my scripts in S32's OWA process. You have to submit the entire script and I doubt all those scripts are read each time. It's more likely coverage is done once and used as a basis for assessment evermore. Pure speculation on my part. But I do give up on OWAs now. Last month I had the satisfaction of getting an OWA rejection email on the same day that S32 also let me know by email that a pitch of the same script had earned a read request from the director of development for a production company that had made some of the most successful action films of the last decade. Then it happened again the following week with another DoD and with another production company of equal stature. So goodbye "Writer's Room," I'll spend my money on the pitches. But I do appreciate S32 no matter what happens. Because of them there's at least a lightning in a bottle's chance my script will draw interest from one of these top companies. Two bottles on my playing field, and all I had to do was shell out 70 bucks for the two pitches. I like CJ's dating analogy. I've got one script that's a total slut, mixing it up with an international array of indy producers and directors since 2017, more than ten of them, with two option offers I'd declined as not being fair enough. That script is dating once again, thanks to SR.
As ever, it's best to lean into what gets the best results from your traits and talents. Again, much like dating, being in the right environment is critical. Some writers create material well aligned with curation, others are amazing in a room.
I keep circling that very question, CJ. I write my scripts minimalist and vertically (lean? Is that the word?)
I can't figure out if I need to try to get staffed in a writer's room or if I just need to shop my specs and hope for curating.
The "lost" feeling is so real. I've been told to try and get in a room but I'm not sure. I don't know where I'd sit, if that makes sense.
TBH, I don't think that lost feeling ever goes. I know people who've been in this all their lives, and the passing of each project feels like being thrown back into the wilderness.
There was a really realistic career timeline posted on Reddit a month or so back. It basically outlined that, for most, this tends to be an intense hobby for the first decade or so, and only then do you get the bottom-of-the-barrel jobs. Then it's another ten years working semi-professionally until it becomes a viable career.
The greatest difficulty is networking outside of any sort of filmmaking hub. There's really no substitute for being there in front of people. However, that also means being exposed to time waster after time waster and dead end after dead end.
The OWA submission pages have been updated with some more transparency behind the process.
I'm all for transparency, but I actually think the S32 process for OWAs that you posted makes it worse. We're always whining about gatekeepers keeping our scripts from getting to the producers and what have we here.... gatekeepers keeping our scripts from getting to producers. Only this time, instead of a production company reader, it's the S32 cabal reading and re-reading to "protect" the producers from getting scripts they deem to be not on point.
If you want gatekeepers, just submit directly to production companies and take your chances with their gatekeepers! How is their shit any different?
You're basically arguing against the idea of curation, which I totally get. I'm not a fan of curation myself, and that's why Script Revolution is built primarily as a discovery platform.
The problem everyone is facing is oversupply, so many outsource the filtering. The thing is, it's like asking someone to go out and bring you back some food with a very vague idea of what you want. The chances of them coming back with something acceptable are fifty-fifty, while the chances of them surprising you with exactly what you desire in the moment are one in a million.
You take away the curation element, and the OWAs become moot.
The other major unspoken issue with reader alignment is being given the benefit of the doubt. When you are a complete unknown without any sort of reputable endorsement, you're on the back foot with most readers, who will take every minor issue they have as a sign you don't have what it takes. The less experienced and lower-tier the reader, the more petty this issue gets. I could submit a script anonymously to an unknown competition tomorrow and get shot down by page three for bold slug-lines, while I could submit it to some well-established industry members who know me, who'll go in positive from page one.
Just to add a little more context, when I talk about oversupply, that's beyond the scope of just too many applicable, producible scripts. Having seen things from the other side, it's shocking what people will submit. I'm talking scripts that don't even come close to what's been asked for and/or written in a way that doesn't even look vaguely like a screenplay.
A lot of curation is really just triage. You've got readers simply opening the pdfs to see if they are actually just five pages of novel-formatted prose in Times New Roman. I wish I was joking.
This is why making the first round in a competition is basically meaningless. That first sweep is pretty much eliminating complete garbage.
This is partly why Script Revolution initially demanded members complete a twenty-five-word bio to sign up. If a self-proclaimed writer can't even do that then they are highly unlikely to be writing good material.
Some curation platforms use financial commitment as a way to filter, but it doesn't work. Some of the worst offenders have plenty of money to waste, and in some cases, are using it as a crutch in the first place.
A lot of writers also want curation to exist, but only if the cut-off is below them. They think the problem is "too much crap" muddying the waters, but don't stop to question if they are part of that problem.
The other thing is just how expensive quality curation really is. The Gauntlet shows the reality of what it takes to do it rigorously.
I hear you CJ - there is A LOT of junk out there, but I don't have a problem with curation; I understand its purpose and feel it's the only way to separate the wheat from the chaff. Someone has to filter out the crap! But my issue is why not submit the LOGLINES to the producer themselves and have them select the ones they want to read. Then the S32 reader can read from what the producers actually want.
I mostly have a problem with curation. I don't think most people doing it are really in a position to do it. Plus, we know the statistics when it comes to success are dire. You make a good point about simply providing the loglines, perhaps after a sweep through to make sure the scripts are presentable.
I agree with you Michael (Fine)! I don't think it's promising to have the S32 people filtering the loglines and/or scripts. I actually just canceled my Writers Room membership and gave them that reason why - told them I'd stick to InkTip where it goes directly to the producer/seeker. And, CJ, exactly right re the people doing the filtering.
Cannon - I cancelled my Writers Room membership almost two years ago and in that time I've watched one writer after another achieve success through script options, paid writing gigs, rep deals, and even a few production deals ... Oh, wait ... maybe not.
Indeed, we're getting on for nearly two years discussing this now. No positive OWA news that I know of. At an average of five OWAs a month, that's getting on for well over a hundred in that time with no news of even meetings, never mind signings, assignments, options, or sales. I don't know if anybody has even gotten any feedback, other than a pass. The analysis of scripts chosen has shown a few WGA writers in the mix too, so we know the scripts are up to standard.
Geez. Those statistics are alarming. I'm glad I cancelled my Writer's Room subscription. The pitch sessions were more worthwhile for the cost, but even those can be a big gamble, depending on who you get.
There may be stuff we don't know about, but nothing's coming out from either Stage 32 or participants regarding any movement.
Today is two years since I started this thread to express my concern about the lack of any results from the OWA's. A lot could've changed in two years. There could've been a flurry of script options, writing assignments, rep deals, and maybe even a script produced. None of that has happened. Almost four and a half years of operation for the OWA's and still not a single paid option. At what point is it reasonable for writers to conclude that there is no opportunity in the OWA's?
It is starting to feel like a boondoggle to me. I'll continue to submit, but at this point, it feels random and inconsequential. Not getting selected for the pulpy/Tarantino-esc OWA still stings for me, as that's my wheelhouse. Not so much as someone reporting any form of communication back, other than a pass. No meetings. No options. No associated assignments. Almost entirely anonymous industry members with TBC payment terms.
Laurie Ashbourne raised concerns a couple of years back, and I argued against them. I'm now thinking she was right.
I still think the whole thing is in good faith and a worthwhile benefit of the Writer's Room. I just question the industry demand.
I am on Stage 32 and there is a boat load of spam on there. So many fake accounts. Diablo Cody supposedly sent me a Network Request on there. But to no prevail it was a fake account. The account said Diablo M. Cody, which is a big red flag, and no accolades or awards, just a bare profile with a small description papragraph of her bio. What I have researched Stage 32 is meant for "practicing" pitches and OWA's. It is very seldom that someone gets a deal or rep from Stage 32. That is what I have gathered anyways.
It's sadly becoming a real Wild West on there.
The fake industry-member issue has been a problem for years, and it seems to have become increasingly automated. There's a thread in the screenwriting lounge right now with lots of people saying they've been affected. This is an old scam where someone poses as a known industry member connects with you, reaches out about your work, and eventually tells you they can do something with your script for an upfront fee to cover their costs. It's been run across all sorts of platforms in the past, even just via email, and is nearly impossible to stop. As I understand it, S32 are actively working with the FBI on a bunch of cases that were run through the platform.
The AI-driven account issue is getting a little scary. I'm getting connection requests from 'story editors' on a daily basis. These accounts are interacting with the site like a normal user. They even post and comment in the forums. There was a thread I saw the other day started by an AI agent and had, like, twenty members engaging with it. It was the weirdest thing. They are generally easy to spot because they almost always point to a services page on Fiverr, have uncanny-vanny profile pictures, and often names that don't match the gender/race of said bio pic. The thing is, not only are the scamming people, they are also posting a lot of questionable advice. I saw one where a guy was told that getting a read request from Zero Gravity was a tremendous achievement - it's a running joke that you could send Zero Gravity an email virus and still get a release document back.
The thing is, I'm not sure what they can realistically do. The whole point is that the platform is open.
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