Almost two and a half years now for the OWA's and they've yet to produce anything. At what point does it become reasonable to assume that there's no genuine opportunity there?
My biggest concern with IMDb is that it's owned by a big studio/distributor, and thus there's a massive conflict of interest. Surely it's in the site owner's interest to have films made by or distributed by competing platforms look as terrible as possible?
I just wondered, as there's been a few absolute nutcases on there over the years, including one who was on the run from the authorities for locking her kids up in cages. Each was allowed to post on there for far too long, and it was scary how many people they drew in.
The S32 Writers Room cost $39 per month. There are about a dozen OWA's per month. About four to five scripts get selected for each OWA. At an estimated membership of 3000 writers that works out to about a one in fifty chance of having a script selected per month. In two years I had two scripts selected. So my cost was almost five hundred dollars per script. Both rejected. The most successful Writers Room member has had about 26 selections. Nothing has come of any of those selections thus far.
I've submitted to about 40 and had 4 get selected by the reading team. 1 passed on thus far by an industry member. Don't know about the other 3 yet.
It takes, on average, around two months from submission to getting notification the script has been selected or not.
I've had around a dozen emails trying to upsell me stuff related to my OWA submissions since March.
It's very hard to cost each OWA submission as you have to factor in the quality of scripts being submitted, their applicability to the brief, and if the brief itself matches anything in a writer's portfolio.
Yeah, OWA industry members are identified by name. They vary in stature, in my experience. Two I've had a script passed onto are headed up the studio division of a very well-known brand. One (who passed) runs a reputable agency. Another just seems to be little more than an Instagrammer. However, this is a dichotomy that frustrates me. It's not realistic to expect major (or even mid-level) industry members to be outsourcing material to read from websites. No platform deserves to be knocked down for that. As I've said over and over, getting in with a low-budget or newbie producer is where most aspiring screenwriters are going to find traction. I'd have less faith in something happening if they were higher-profile. The Black List has always hidden behind the anonymity of industry reads, and I'm still kinda amazed they've always gotten away with it. Writers deserve to know who's reading their material.
Judging The Stage 32 Writer's Room on the OWAs is short-sighted. There's a lot more to that subscription. It is expensive, but it delivers value, in my opinion. I wouldn't back it if I didn't think otherwise. It's only for writers with that kind of money to spend and the time to participate fully. Those people exist. I'd much rather see them go that route than countless competition entries or BL evaluations.
I must have optioned in the region of thirty short scripts via Simply Scripts. They used to get snapped up the day they were featured. I'll always have a soft spot for what Don has built and continues to pour so much aultristic effort into. That phase of my development was probably one of the most important. It was humbling, pushed my craft, and put me in a new world of actually colaborating with filmmakers.
Sadly, what works best for readers and best for writers doesn't align well. When it comes to reading material, there's a few hoops to jump through here on Script Revolution and that's for good reason.
As I understand it, the only direct contact through a Stage 32 OWA would be if an industry member wanted to move forward with a script. I can't see anybody wanting it any other way. It would be an onslaught of "have you read it yet", "what do you think", "why did you pass", and "here's a new draft".
The Writer's Room encourages study and development. That's my main reason for supporting it. It's one of the few real bridges between amateurs and industry members. There's a lot of resources there too. Will some people use it just for the OWAs and to try and pester producers? Absolutely.
I'm glad Simply Scripts exists for those who want to write shorts and just get them out there where they can be read by anybody. That was me for a phase and perhaps something I'll return to in the future.
I agree that it's as if writing is the last thing many writers want to actually do. Just ask people to write a synopsis to help promote their own work. Even a logline is too much for some. Then there's the brainstorming side. People asking for ideas on forums. I've said before, if you have to ask for help at every turn, why the fuck would a Hollywood studio need you?
Got two more passes from industry members this weekend. Seems the OWAs and Writer's Room are being conflated quite badly now. I can see Stage 32 having to separate them if that continues. A few people saying they'll no longer submit to them, but that seems like madness to me.
Conflating the OWA's and the Writers Room is the whole point. If they were standalone products, sales would be a tiny fraction of what they are now. As a standalone product the OWA's would need to show some results to entice customers. Instead they serve as an enhancement of the Writers Room's value. Packaging them together helps to muddy the waters so that it's harder to see what their actual value is.
The thing is, it's always a lottery. Stage 32 can't control what people are asking for or what they like. All they can do is round up what fits a brief, put forward what they think is best, and hope something meets an industry member's needs. That's pretty much how it works for all of us when we're unknowns.
It might be that there is an issue with Stage 32 identifying quality material. It may be that little matches the briefs posted. It might be that plenty of material aligns but is not of good enough quality. Plus, of course, it might be that the industry members involved are neither that committed and/or can't recognize good scripts/writers themselves. Either way, all self-respecting writers are always going to feel something is amiss when they don't get forwarded, or do and then get a pass. However, to default to the assumption it's all a scam or they're lying to people's faces is a bizarre conclusion to draw, given the nature of the business.
It's one of the reasons Script Revolution does not really curate. It's a minefield.
It's always been a lottery. The commercial side of the art world is inherently a lottery. The book Hit Makers: The Science of Popularity in an Age of Distraction details all of this. The whole "just write a good script" mentality comes from people who want to believe they broke in through sheer talent and is an easy way of putting down those yet to do the same. It's the fundemental reason I can't contribute to the biggest screenwriting group on Facebook, because the whole thing is dominated by someone pushing that rhetoric to glorify themselves and keep others in check.
I know at least three working producers who Stage 32 have worked with to produce educational content and interact with the community. I've worked with all of them on paid assignments that led to produced movies. One has had a global #1 in the box office, and another ran a prodco for a major actor. To be fair, pretty much every industry member I see traction with tends to pop up on some Stage 32 listing when I Google them. To suggest they don't actually work with any connected insiders, given all the evidence, is again bizarre.
There is little connection between talent and breaking in, and I say that as someone who's broken in. Anyone on the inside knows that. Two of the worst scripts I've ever read have come from within the industry and both had people attached who were trying to fund them. Needless to say, I got to read them because I was called in to rewrite them. They were both good concepts though. Good concepts at the right time to make them.
I can assure you that everything I post, from my personal experience, is true. Perhaps not true in your own. From what I've seen, people often break in because they are highly effective at leveraging any form of access they can gain. Money talks also. I'm under no illusions that the industry is a meritocracy or anything close. Again, claiming everyone who's broke in deserves to be there really feels good for those on that side. It's also great for those who can only give trite titbits of advice, since they can't talk about craft.
I was having my posts deleted on that Facebook group. I need to find the old message from the admins but it pretty much told me to stop being too positive LOL.
Again, respectfully, this isn't my experience at all. From what I've seen, it's a people business, and being liked/familiar seems to trump pretty much anything else. However, while I know people who've run studios, I've never worked within the studio system itself - and I'm not sure if I'd want to.
While social media has certainly exasperated some issues, it isn't the cause of them. The attitude is the problem, and it's kind of a dance that requires both parties to participate in. It's like a lot of aspiring writers want a guru that looks down on them. So many seem to default to the school mindset. In my case, I was scalded for being too encouraging rather than demeaning. A lot is deliberately hidden from people by those running the class. I know of working directors who've been told they're no longer welcome to give lessons in film schools because they've told the students they need a backup plan due to how tough it is.
I certainly didn't mean to imply that the filmmaking world was any more nepotistic than any other industry. It may even be that there's more of a stigma within the arts world.
I think it's pretty well-circulated that the odds are dramatically against all aspiring screenwriters. The problem is, again, that it's disingenuous to claim it's a meritocracy, or at least a meritocracy based on much that's objective. This is the inherent issue with the arts - it is, to a large extent, a lottery. Like it or loath it, mediocre work that hits the right people at the right time can result in tremendous success.
While I'll always push people toward studying the craft, seeing their work as artistic, and trying to develop their voice, when it comes to career building, it's networking that clearly trumps all else. I'd say most screenwriters suck at that more than they suck at anything else, partly because they are aiming far too high.
I've been curious about joining the Wrtier's Room but I am a little skepitcal, especially for the price. Is it really worth it? (connecting to industry members, getting feedback, exposure, etc..)
As a Rockstar member here, you can get a month's free use of the Writer's Room and see for yourself. I have access to it. It's good if you have a lot of time to engage with the activities and resources on there. Pros drop in and give advice a lot, there's plenty of exercises to take part in, and there's a lot of resources to take advantage of.
OWA's (Open Writing Assignments) appear to be a scam in the context of the S32 Writers Room. In 34 months time they've produced zero material benefit for any Writers Room member. But they are one of the big selling points of the Writers Room based on the remote possibility that one of them might lead to a script getting produced.
I don't think the OWAs are a scam myself, but I agree that joining the Writer's Room, just for those, would be foolish and frustrating. It's for aspiring writers who have personality types that work well with group participation. Knowing how you best learn is important. I'm an effective book learner while completely useless in a classroom.
Also worth adding is that the Stage 32 OWA submission rules dictate that writers have to be participating in the VIP forum room or their script won't even be considered.
What the Writers Room offers is mostly encouragement. If that's what anyone is looking for, and they have the time to participate in the Zoom sessions, then it could be worthwhile. Otherwise I'd suggest spending one's money elsewhere.
Encouragement, direction, resources, and comradery, I'd say. There's a lot of value in that for some. As ever though, only ever spend money you would otherwise be willing to throw away. You can always go to the library and borrow a lot of great books that cover the topics of screenwriting, business networking, and art.
Right from the start, my first thoughts on S32 were that it was clearly a financial leveraging platform aimed at new writers vs a sincere space to share and promote.
Unlike this one.
I understand, and have no problem with the fact that CJ has friendships and connections with S32 personnel, but one only has to observe the amount of dollar signs on every page of S32 to see straight through it.
My biggest concern with IMDb is that it's owned by a big studio/distributor, and thus there's a massive conflict of interest. Surely it's in the site owner's interest to have films made by or distributed by competing platforms look as terrible as possible?
Regarding the nutter on IMDb who ended up on Stage 32, would his name rhyme with Reno Pala by any chance?
I just wondered, as there's been a few absolute nutcases on there over the years, including one who was on the run from the authorities for locking her kids up in cages. Each was allowed to post on there for far too long, and it was scary how many people they drew in.
Back on the topic of OWAs, it's been nothing but rapid rejection lately. Brutal.
It doesn't cost me anything as it's part of the Writer's Room.
The S32 Writers Room cost $39 per month. There are about a dozen OWA's per month. About four to five scripts get selected for each OWA. At an estimated membership of 3000 writers that works out to about a one in fifty chance of having a script selected per month. In two years I had two scripts selected. So my cost was almost five hundred dollars per script. Both rejected. The most successful Writers Room member has had about 26 selections. Nothing has come of any of those selections thus far.
I'm just looking at my own slats.
I've submitted to about 40 and had 4 get selected by the reading team. 1 passed on thus far by an industry member. Don't know about the other 3 yet.
It takes, on average, around two months from submission to getting notification the script has been selected or not.
I've had around a dozen emails trying to upsell me stuff related to my OWA submissions since March.
It's very hard to cost each OWA submission as you have to factor in the quality of scripts being submitted, their applicability to the brief, and if the brief itself matches anything in a writer's portfolio.
Yeah, OWA industry members are identified by name. They vary in stature, in my experience. Two I've had a script passed onto are headed up the studio division of a very well-known brand. One (who passed) runs a reputable agency. Another just seems to be little more than an Instagrammer. However, this is a dichotomy that frustrates me. It's not realistic to expect major (or even mid-level) industry members to be outsourcing material to read from websites. No platform deserves to be knocked down for that. As I've said over and over, getting in with a low-budget or newbie producer is where most aspiring screenwriters are going to find traction. I'd have less faith in something happening if they were higher-profile. The Black List has always hidden behind the anonymity of industry reads, and I'm still kinda amazed they've always gotten away with it. Writers deserve to know who's reading their material.
Judging The Stage 32 Writer's Room on the OWAs is short-sighted. There's a lot more to that subscription. It is expensive, but it delivers value, in my opinion. I wouldn't back it if I didn't think otherwise. It's only for writers with that kind of money to spend and the time to participate fully. Those people exist. I'd much rather see them go that route than countless competition entries or BL evaluations.
I must have optioned in the region of thirty short scripts via Simply Scripts. They used to get snapped up the day they were featured. I'll always have a soft spot for what Don has built and continues to pour so much aultristic effort into. That phase of my development was probably one of the most important. It was humbling, pushed my craft, and put me in a new world of actually colaborating with filmmakers.
Sadly, what works best for readers and best for writers doesn't align well. When it comes to reading material, there's a few hoops to jump through here on Script Revolution and that's for good reason.
As I understand it, the only direct contact through a Stage 32 OWA would be if an industry member wanted to move forward with a script. I can't see anybody wanting it any other way. It would be an onslaught of "have you read it yet", "what do you think", "why did you pass", and "here's a new draft".
The Writer's Room encourages study and development. That's my main reason for supporting it. It's one of the few real bridges between amateurs and industry members. There's a lot of resources there too. Will some people use it just for the OWAs and to try and pester producers? Absolutely.
I'm glad Simply Scripts exists for those who want to write shorts and just get them out there where they can be read by anybody. That was me for a phase and perhaps something I'll return to in the future.
I agree that it's as if writing is the last thing many writers want to actually do. Just ask people to write a synopsis to help promote their own work. Even a logline is too much for some. Then there's the brainstorming side. People asking for ideas on forums. I've said before, if you have to ask for help at every turn, why the fuck would a Hollywood studio need you?
Why assume nobody progresses? The Industry members are named.
Sounds like you're well in with the pros. Congratulations, and well done. Hope it leads to big things for you.
The OWA's are a lottery that charges $39 per month for tickets and after almost 34 months have paid out not a cent in prize money.
Got two more passes from industry members this weekend. Seems the OWAs and Writer's Room are being conflated quite badly now. I can see Stage 32 having to separate them if that continues. A few people saying they'll no longer submit to them, but that seems like madness to me.
Conflating the OWA's and the Writers Room is the whole point. If they were standalone products, sales would be a tiny fraction of what they are now. As a standalone product the OWA's would need to show some results to entice customers. Instead they serve as an enhancement of the Writers Room's value. Packaging them together helps to muddy the waters so that it's harder to see what their actual value is.
The thing is, it's always a lottery. Stage 32 can't control what people are asking for or what they like. All they can do is round up what fits a brief, put forward what they think is best, and hope something meets an industry member's needs. That's pretty much how it works for all of us when we're unknowns.
It might be that there is an issue with Stage 32 identifying quality material. It may be that little matches the briefs posted. It might be that plenty of material aligns but is not of good enough quality. Plus, of course, it might be that the industry members involved are neither that committed and/or can't recognize good scripts/writers themselves. Either way, all self-respecting writers are always going to feel something is amiss when they don't get forwarded, or do and then get a pass. However, to default to the assumption it's all a scam or they're lying to people's faces is a bizarre conclusion to draw, given the nature of the business.
It's one of the reasons Script Revolution does not really curate. It's a minefield.
It's always been a lottery. The commercial side of the art world is inherently a lottery. The book Hit Makers: The Science of Popularity in an Age of Distraction details all of this. The whole "just write a good script" mentality comes from people who want to believe they broke in through sheer talent and is an easy way of putting down those yet to do the same. It's the fundemental reason I can't contribute to the biggest screenwriting group on Facebook, because the whole thing is dominated by someone pushing that rhetoric to glorify themselves and keep others in check.
I know at least three working producers who Stage 32 have worked with to produce educational content and interact with the community. I've worked with all of them on paid assignments that led to produced movies. One has had a global #1 in the box office, and another ran a prodco for a major actor. To be fair, pretty much every industry member I see traction with tends to pop up on some Stage 32 listing when I Google them. To suggest they don't actually work with any connected insiders, given all the evidence, is again bizarre.
There is little connection between talent and breaking in, and I say that as someone who's broken in. Anyone on the inside knows that. Two of the worst scripts I've ever read have come from within the industry and both had people attached who were trying to fund them. Needless to say, I got to read them because I was called in to rewrite them. They were both good concepts though. Good concepts at the right time to make them.
I can assure you that everything I post, from my personal experience, is true. Perhaps not true in your own. From what I've seen, people often break in because they are highly effective at leveraging any form of access they can gain. Money talks also. I'm under no illusions that the industry is a meritocracy or anything close. Again, claiming everyone who's broke in deserves to be there really feels good for those on that side. It's also great for those who can only give trite titbits of advice, since they can't talk about craft.
I was having my posts deleted on that Facebook group. I need to find the old message from the admins but it pretty much told me to stop being too positive LOL.
Again, respectfully, this isn't my experience at all. From what I've seen, it's a people business, and being liked/familiar seems to trump pretty much anything else. However, while I know people who've run studios, I've never worked within the studio system itself - and I'm not sure if I'd want to.
While social media has certainly exasperated some issues, it isn't the cause of them. The attitude is the problem, and it's kind of a dance that requires both parties to participate in. It's like a lot of aspiring writers want a guru that looks down on them. So many seem to default to the school mindset. In my case, I was scalded for being too encouraging rather than demeaning. A lot is deliberately hidden from people by those running the class. I know of working directors who've been told they're no longer welcome to give lessons in film schools because they've told the students they need a backup plan due to how tough it is.
I certainly didn't mean to imply that the filmmaking world was any more nepotistic than any other industry. It may even be that there's more of a stigma within the arts world.
I think it's pretty well-circulated that the odds are dramatically against all aspiring screenwriters. The problem is, again, that it's disingenuous to claim it's a meritocracy, or at least a meritocracy based on much that's objective. This is the inherent issue with the arts - it is, to a large extent, a lottery. Like it or loath it, mediocre work that hits the right people at the right time can result in tremendous success.
While I'll always push people toward studying the craft, seeing their work as artistic, and trying to develop their voice, when it comes to career building, it's networking that clearly trumps all else. I'd say most screenwriters suck at that more than they suck at anything else, partly because they are aiming far too high.
I've been curious about joining the Wrtier's Room but I am a little skepitcal, especially for the price. Is it really worth it? (connecting to industry members, getting feedback, exposure, etc..)
As a Rockstar member here, you can get a month's free use of the Writer's Room and see for yourself. I have access to it. It's good if you have a lot of time to engage with the activities and resources on there. Pros drop in and give advice a lot, there's plenty of exercises to take part in, and there's a lot of resources to take advantage of.
As for joining the Writers Room, definitely don't do it for the OWA's. They've produced absolutely no results now in almost three years of operation.
Awesome! How do I get it? I just made a new account there using the same email. Also, what are OWA's?
OWA's (Open Writing Assignments) appear to be a scam in the context of the S32 Writers Room. In 34 months time they've produced zero material benefit for any Writers Room member. But they are one of the big selling points of the Writers Room based on the remote possibility that one of them might lead to a script getting produced.
I don't think the OWAs are a scam myself, but I agree that joining the Writer's Room, just for those, would be foolish and frustrating. It's for aspiring writers who have personality types that work well with group participation. Knowing how you best learn is important. I'm an effective book learner while completely useless in a classroom.
What else is offered in the Writer's Room?
Info here: https://www.stage32.com/writers-room
Also worth adding is that the Stage 32 OWA submission rules dictate that writers have to be participating in the VIP forum room or their script won't even be considered.
What the Writers Room offers is mostly encouragement. If that's what anyone is looking for, and they have the time to participate in the Zoom sessions, then it could be worthwhile. Otherwise I'd suggest spending one's money elsewhere.
Thanks for the info, will look into this when I can.
Encouragement, direction, resources, and comradery, I'd say. There's a lot of value in that for some. As ever though, only ever spend money you would otherwise be willing to throw away. You can always go to the library and borrow a lot of great books that cover the topics of screenwriting, business networking, and art.
Right from the start, my first thoughts on S32 were that it was clearly a financial leveraging platform aimed at new writers vs a sincere space to share and promote.
Unlike this one.
I understand, and have no problem with the fact that CJ has friendships and connections with S32 personnel, but one only has to observe the amount of dollar signs on every page of S32 to see straight through it.
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